A fabulous commentary from Kaitlin over at More Like Mary More Like Me!
And just a refresher on what the Vatican guidelines ARE for modesty:
“A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent materials are improper.”
Here’s Kaitlin’s blog posting:
I decided to join with a few other bloggers and tackle the Dress Dare featured on the Defining Beauty blog. Basically-it encourages women to wear dresses or skirts every single day in May in honor of Our Lady and in celebration of true femininity. I think it’s awesome.
A few of my thoughts on the subject:
It will be pretty easy for me. I own a ton of skirts and have a couple of cute dresses that can be worn casually. My very sweet pregnant friend just gave me a bunch more skirts to wear over the summer while she doesn’t fit into them (she still got the better end of that deal!) I can wear them to work as long as their not restricting-so I wear my “flowy” ones on the weekdays. And-I LIKE wearing skirts. It’s definitely not a sacrifice for me. I used to think I looked too short in them, but I got over that after just one day of pure comfort. During the summers, I usually wear skirt just about every single day anyway. Skirt, flip flops, and a solid color tee-my summer wardrobe.
Shortly after we were married I made the internal decision to try and wear only skirts or dresses to Sunday Mass. I just felt God pushing me to do it. As I said, easy in the summer, not so easy in the winter. I spent a ridiculous amount of time and energy ordering long skirts offline and returning them when I realized I looked like a grandma. I gave in last winter and wore pants to Mass. Thankfully, this past winter I discovered boots! I can proudly say I haven’t worn pants to Mass in over a year thanks to the wonderful invention of boots!
And while I am proud of myself and think that my efforts are pleasing to God, I’m still falling short. I still wear pants to daily Masses. I don’t know how I rationalize this in my head. If it’s clear to me that God wants me to wear a skirt to Sunday Mass, why would He change His mind about a random Tuesday? Is it not still a celebration of the Eucharist? Is it not the same Bible being read from? Is is not still heaven touching earth for all the faithful to witness? I know that it is all of these things-but I’m lazy. I wear whatever I’ve got on when it comes to daily Mass. I need to try harder.
Since the Dress Dare isn’t going to be much of a challenge for me, I’ve decided to spend the month trying to reflect on modesty. Me and modesty go way back. I’ve been on a long journey to get to know her a little better. I don’t want to spend too much time on this post (it’s already long enough as it is) and I’d rather be cuddling up on the couch with Ted. But I do want to get some thoughts down on paper (or blog).
Modesty is important. Period. The Church has very clear teachings in regards to sins against the flesh and immodest dress is never acceptable. How to define “modesty”, however, gets pretty tricky. I know many beautiful, wonderful Catholic women who wear things that I wouldn’t dream of! Also, I know many women who put me to shame in my skinny jeans and too-tight tops. The most important thing is that we’re all TRYING!
While I don’t have the time or energy to post about the importance of modesty, I do want to include some links that have already said what I want to say (only better). A post published today at Defining Beauty wonderfully sums up the information in this book. I’ve known about the link between immodest dress and corruption of the Church for years now. What’s taken me so long to get on board?? Also, this homily by a fantastic priest reminds us that the Vatican has very strict guideline for women’s clothing-the Vatican! Last I checked they were a pretty good source for all things moral.
With that said, here are my thoughts on what is and what is not modest. [Let me first say that just because I believe these things with all my heart and truly feel that God has asked me to dress in this way-does NOT mean I don't fall sometimes. I know that many people could read this and think of me as a hypocrite. And they would be right-I am a hypocrite. But that's why we have confession and that's I frequent it!]
Nothing above the knee. Ever. Ted loves my legs-he tells me all the time. If he’s attracted to them after so many years of seeing them-imagine what some high school boy might think as I walk through Wal-Mart. (I’m not saying they’re great-only that Ted thinks so-ha!) Our thighs only lead to one place-and it’s not our knees. They should be covered.
No sleeveless. This one is tough. Most people will agree with no spaghetti straps-but sleeveless? I think the line needs to be drawn somewhere and this is where I draw it.
Absolutely no part of a woman’s breast should be visible outside of her clothes. None. And that means going up higher than just avoiding a cleavage line. While going through my closet a few weeks ago I tried on a dress that I wore to some wedding last summer. I asked Ted if he thought the dress was too low or if I should keep it. His response? He poked my skin with his finger just above where the dress was and asked “would it bother you if any other man but me touched you here?” Point taken. If it shouldn’t be touched (imagine someone swatting a mosquito away from you) it shouldn’t be shown. I got rid of the dress. Ted also reminds me that just because it may cover my chest when I’m starting in the mirror head on-doesn’t mean some tall guy can’t look straight down it as I stand below him. I falter on that one a lot.
Clothes shouldn’t be so tight that they accentuate anything. I don’t have a lot to accentuate-but I can still wear my clothes too tight at times. It’s usually from not wanting to give up a beloved shirt that’s gotten too small-but this is still no excuse.
No pajamas in public. I don’t know why this was ridiculously popular in college-it’s gross. And no one thinks you’re cute in your Ugg boots and cut off sweat pants strolling through the grocery store. I’m against this one not just because it’s immodest (only your husband should see you in your night clothes) but it’s stupid! Put some real clothes on!
And for the sake of time, I’m going to have to save swimming suits for another day. I promise I’m not avoiding the topic-I’m just tired…..Okay-maybe I’m avoiding the topic. For now at least.
Finally, to end this post, I’ll make the much needed disclaimer that I’m not writing this post to judge anyone-Catholic or non-Catholic-on what they are wearing. I would by lying if I said that judgemental thoughts never cross my mind when I see a friend wearing a low cut top to Mass-I’m a prideful sinner and I’m ashamed. But I’m not TRYING to judge! We’re all on a journey towards modesty-some may be farther along than others. We should encourage each other and cheer each other on-not roll our eyes when we see a sister failing. I’m speaking these words to myself more than anyone.
I’m interested as to what other people think with regards to this topic. Does anyone agree or disagree with my guidelines for dress? Got any advice on living it out?
Other also read:
This is beautiful! And I love it! Many of my friends don’t understand why I wear a skirt/dress everyday, and when I tell them, they still just kind of think, “oh, that’s nice.” Women SO do not understand what immodest dress does to a man. It’s very sad and I wish I was able to do more as far as educating other women in this subject. Thank you for doing your part – definitely sharing!
Rebecca
Rebecca, keep up the good work! You do your sisters proud(whether they admit it or not) by avoiding pants and shorts like the plague. I have, despite having been born as recently as 1975, always had a distaste for pants on females; ironically, my mother does not have a problem with pants on females(she has even given me a hard time on my views on the issue).
Wonderful post! I read the “dress dare” today and decided to take part. Thankfully I’ve already been wearing skirts since May 1 just by happenstance! Then a friend of mine linked this page to her FB. I’m glad she did; it made for a great read during naptime!
I’ve heard that homily before, it really makes me think about what I wear, but I’m dreading going through my closet. :s
Erin, the fact that you are embracing skirt and dress wearing is wonderful! As someone who won’t even fall for a pants wearer(there are other males who feel the same way I do), it warms my heart when I hear a gal ONLY wears skirts and dresses.
Great news for all the women trying to wear skirts or dresses this month.
Our company will give you 25% off all our skirts, and anything else you may need to help you out on your way to dressing modestly.
Simply enter in the promotion code spot…. skirts, and you will get the discount!
Happy Shopping
Oops
The web site is phyllisjean.net
OK – as far as the swimsuit stuff goes…check out hydrochic – modest and modern can be found here!!
I agree with Rebecca….most women just DON’T get it… and what a shame. Modesty is such a beautiful gift that we can pass on to our children if we could just understand it.
Thank you for your post! It’s nice to hear from someone like-minded who’s really striving to live out the Church’s teachings on modesty. I too draw the line at sleeveless because the comments I’ve had from holy men say that it’s about angles. With sleeveless things it’s usually not fitted enough that you can’t see bra straps or see into some sort of cleavage. I’m not saying it’s scandalous to wear a sleeveless top with thick straps, but I’d rather air on the side of caution.
Also, I love the rule of, if it shouldn’t be touched, it shouldn’t be seen! That’s a good one I’m going to use. I usually try bending over in the mirror to make sure my shirts don’t give anything away and raising my arms to make sure no stomach or back is seen when I move. Thanks so much!!!!
When I was in RCIA back in 1998 I switched to wearing dresses and skirts all of the time. I loved it! I felt so feminine and womanly! I was a size 3x but I didn’t care: I bought long flowy skirts, “pesant” dresses, everything in gorgeous feminine colors. I was on top of the world.
But it didn’t last long because folk wouldn’t leave me alone. “Why are you dressing like it’s the 1800′s? “…. “What’s wrong, are you afraid of your lex?” …. “You must be mentally ill!”
I heard it all. I got jeered at, laughed at, cut down, had my sanity questioned. I was horrified! And so, as I was so new in the Faith, I crumbled under the pressure and went back to pants. I was in college for 5 years and I totally slobbed around because I had to wear baggy pants and baggy men’s shirts in order to avoid the skin-tight belly showing women’s outfits.
What was UP with people? It was always *women* that cut me down and trashed on me for wearing skirts and dresses! If I did wear pants everyone went on about how “thin” I looked, as if appealing to my vanity would bring me to my senses. (Come on! I was 3x. I’m not a thin woman ever! How lame to try and get me to think I’d look sooo thin in pants.)
Well, it took a few years but I came to understand that the reason so many women dogged on me was because they were threatened. Something about seeing me in modest, feminine clothing was a serious threat – so much so that they had to bully me back into jeans and frump!
I’m happy to say that I’m back in dresses and skirts. And now I’m older and I’ve been a Catholic long enough that I’m grounded in the faith. People don’t scare me any more. I don’t care what anyone says and I’m not afraid to stand up for myself ~ and for modesty and decencey! I even have a lovely bathing outfit that goes from ankle to writst. If folk want to call me a mental case or an extremist, let ‘em! I could care less. I’ve also started wearing headcoverings – my favorite being short veil-like kerchiefs and snoods for everyday wear and flowery hats, sun bonnets, and modified wimples for “out and about” wear.
Women come up to me and they say, “I love your hat/cloak/dress/whatever… but I would never dare ware that myself. I’m too afraid.” That is so sad. Women are supposedly so “liberated” since the 1960′s but all I see is tons of fear and endless self-hatred in every direction. “I’m so fat! I need to lose even *more* weight! I need to wax my lex and wear undergarments that boost my bosom to my chin! I need to cram my feet into tiny pointy shoes… all so that the world will say I’m good enough!”
It’s so sad. And yet, there is so much hope! I see a modesty revival taking place all over! As a matter of fact there’s a booming industry in small home-based seamstresses that provide lovely modest clothes made-to-order. Headcoverings are also taking off! I’ve seen this boom in just five years! Why even LL Bean offers workout skirts and mary jane workout shoes – although the skirts are too short. But it’s a start!
So it’s sad to see so much fear in women but encouraging to see a rise in modesty and femininity!
I’m proud of Coffee Catholic’s return to skirt and dress wearing. For a female to wear pants and/or shorts is the same as a male to wear skirts, dresses, and other feminine garb, and just as wrong!
If what Coffee Catholic says about how females have cut her down for her flat-out, and dead-right, refusal to wear pants means anything, it proves that males appreciate a good woman. Even those those that are too foolish to promote it at least appreciate it.
If what you say in conclusion means anything, many gals are getting their acts together, but don’t want to admit it. They need to not only admit to getting on the right path, but be proud of it!
I’m new here, but I just felt compelled to comment. I am a plus-sized woman and like Coffee Catholic, I have been told that I “look thinner” in pants, that all my dresses and skirts (which I wear exclusively) are “unflattering”. These people aren’t just women, they are my mother and sister! The trouble I keep having is that I feel like I must balance feminine charm and beauty with modern fashion. This becomes a serious problem for me, because I do feel dumpy in most of my clothing, not pretty and feminine. I feel like I am wearing a sweatsuit, not so attractive. How does one balance what might be more flattering or modern or even fashionable, while still remaining true to modesty standards?
Otherwise, I thought your standards were good. My daughter (age 5) and I only wear dresses and skirts. To keep her modest on the playground, and around the house, she usually wear capri length leggings under her dresses in the summer (in winter its tights) and I love seeing her freedom to move (and somersault) while still knowing that she is covered. For me, I live in a very windy area in the spring and summer and even though I’m round and short, I choose to wear floor length skirts after the below-the-knee- dress came riding up over my waist in a gust of wind! Thankfully, I too, wear shorts underneath my dresses, but it was still humiliating!
Tackle the bathing suit issue, but don’t forget about workout clothes, either! I am trying to figure out how to work out in a skirt. I really like the rule of “if you can’t touch it, you shouldn’t see it.” I wear a lot of button down shirts to church and though it is sort of covered, its definitely not completely covered. I usually try to safety pin it closed a little higher up, but that is very difficult to do and keep it looking nice!
Kristi, don’t let those “pants promoters” get you down. The fact that you ONLY wear skirts and dresses is something you should be proud of. In fact, I wish more females would follow in your footsteps. You may think this is a bit extreme, but any gal who wants to be with me has to wear skirts and dresses, and no pants or shorts.
Kristi, the fact that you are raising your daughter to ONLY wear skirts and dresses is what far too few parents are doing these days. Also, if you have any sons, you can instill a distaste for less-than-feminine women in them. No daughter of mine will dress like she’s my son.
Kristi, I find it interesting, as well as disturbing, how some gals will tell you to wear pants because they feel you will “look thinner” in pants. Many females who wear nothing but skirts and dresses do so, at least in part, because they feel pants make them look fatter, and skirts and dresses make them look thinner. Needless to say, the pro-pants crowd will stop at nothing to get females to wear pants. I’m proud of you for your refusal to buckle to the pressure to violate Dt. 22:5.
Kristi, I know how it feels to have a mother who does not get it. In fact, she acts like females who only or mostly wear skirts and dresses are doing a disservice to females, when the flipside is true. Don’t let Mom and Sis get you down. Keep up the good work!
Wonderful post!
After seeing Brooke Shields roll around on the floor in her Calvin Klein jeans in the late 70′s, saying with a sultry voice, “Nothing comes between me and my Calvin Kleins,” my mom went out to buy me my first pair. I was only in eighth grade, and started to get plenty of looks at my behind and comments from guys about my “nice a–”. While part of me liked the attention, it also bothered my inner conscience, and actually built repressed anger over the years in being treated like an object.
So when I had daughters, I decided that I really didn’t want them to hear comments like that, and that I really didn’t want men looking at them back there. With that in mind, I decided I had better start wearing skirts and it took a few years to grow in comfort with my decision.
My vanity took a beating as my good Catholic friends challenged me, but my daughters are teens now, and I’m so grateful that God gave me the grace to stick by my decision. They are lovely young ladies who always wear skirts and modest tops.
We just went to buy fabric to sew some really cute skirts, and they getting into more fashionable styles now. We will be posting about them at our blog:
Mystical Rose Design
http://www.mysticalrosedesign.blogspot.com next week, so stop by!
In Christ,
Lucy
Lucy, your experience is proof that, contrary to what many have led too many to believe, that male eyes are LIKELIER to go where they ought not to if a female wears pants than if she wears a skirt or dress, not the other way around. In fact, in 2002, when I was working at an advertising job, a male employee said a female employee(the secretary, to be exact) said(his words, not mine) she had “a nice, firm butt”(I loathe bringing it up). She wore pants the day he said that. No one ever made lewd comments about her when she wore skirts and dresses(she actually wore skirts and dresses more often than not; I saw her in pants only twice the whole time I was there).
When they made Ugg boots, they forgot the suffix “-ly”. Uggs are some of the most hideous shoes ever made(for males or females). Also, yes, going in pajamas in public is horrendous!
Kaitlin, the fact that you love to wear skirts and dresses is a positive sign. When it gets colder, you can wear thick hosiery, as Colleen Hammond recommends. Also when females wear pants, it’s the same as a man wearing feminine garb, so keep up the good work!
The title says it all. Also, as a Los Angeles resident, I find it horrible that my see’s “Our Lady Of The Angels Cathedral” has Our Lady not dressed very ladylike(a statue of Our Lady not only does not look like a lady, it looks a bit tomboyish).
Kaitlin, the fact that you are pro-life, and that you participated in the 31-Day Dress Dare, will make you find this of interest(certainly to the point where you will be glad you participated in the “Dress Dare”; over 8 1/2 years ago, I read a flier from a seminary that spelled out in no uncertain terms(even using Scripture and quotes from Popes, Saints, Bishops, and Blesseds) why females shouldn’t wear pants. Its author said to female readers, “You wish to stop abortion? Do it by example; never wear trousers or shorts”. The same seminary even had a flier that compared pants on females to skirts and dresses on males(who wrote it told females if they saw pants on females as not bad, imagine a male in a skirt, with the hope they would be horrified at males in feminine garb).
“More Like Mary, More Like Me” is an excellent title for this post. Years ago, I read a flier from a Catholic apostolate on modesty, and it said the name “Mary” means “lady”. About 8 years ago, I got a flier titled “The Requirements For Modesty In Dress”, and it minced no words; it bluntly asked, “Can you imagine Our Lady in slacks?”, and yet, females justify wearing anything other than skirts and dresses like it’s no big deal! If females are to dress in a manner pleasing to Our Lord and Our Lady, they should dress like ladies(thus, no pants, shorts, leggings[which are often worn as pants; I see it every day], inappropriate tops, or too-short skirts and dresses)!